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Author
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Topic: SuperFlash solution! Mod for Mini controller....
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Scott Funk
Moderator Posts: 124
From: Foley, AL USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 02-09-2000 09:03 AM
   
I found this modification at Ido Bar-tana's web site. It will allow you to modify a sub-$10.00 Mini controller to basically operate like 5 Powerflash units! I'm going to modify/use it to interface my existing (non X-10) motion activated outdoor spot lights with X-10/HomeSeer.Here's the link directly to the mod:
http://www.geocities.com/ido_bartana/modifying_mini_controller.htm#Turning_the_mini_controller_into_dry_contact_receiver
Here's the link to Ido's great site:
http://www.geocities.com/ido_bartana/
CAUTION: If you are not very good with electrical circuts, PLEASE have someone do this mod for you!!! Sincerely, Scott Funk |
Rick LaBanca
Administrator Posts: 688
From: Hope, RI
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 02-09-2000 09:09 AM
I had that idea and found the site too, I forgot about it. With a computer it's actually double inputs because each of the four you can use the on and off trigger, two each.Rick |
Carol
Moderator Posts: 895
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 02-09-2000 04:23 PM
Excellent site! Lots of information on X10 theory and protocols, and it has an extensive section on repair and modification of X10 modules, I'm especially interested in the mini controller to dry contact receiver modification, and the modification of the wall switch for low-voltage operation.Just my 2 cents on the mini controller modification:
I think some sort of screw down barrier strip connector mounted across the face of the mini controller would cover up the holes left by the discarded rocker switches, eliminating any dust and debris from entering the contoller case, and provide for a neat reliable connection point for the dry contact switch connections. If a voltage source is the only thing you have to work with you could mount a small PC board on the face of the unit and install a couple of small SPDT relays on it to work with the specific voltage you are using. Use a grounded metal or flame retardant plastic enclosure and extreme caution if you decide to use 110V line voltage to control the relays. Low voltage control would be preferable, and safer. [This message has been edited by Carol (edited 02-09-2000).] [This message has been edited by Carol (edited 02-09-2000).] [This message has been edited by Carol (edited 02-09-2000).] [This message has been edited by Carol (edited 02-09-2000).] |
Carol
Moderator Posts: 895
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 02-14-2000 06:58 PM
I opened the mini controller and peeled back the clear tape and tactile switch buttons to see what the modification entailed. I noticed that the CENTER contacts for each UNIT [(button)(ie A5)] both ON & OFF, also described as D1's in the instructions for the modification, share the same vertical UNIT bus. The ON surround contacts (3ea) also know in the modification instructions as D2's share the same ON horizontal bus for all the top switch ON closures and the bottom OFF contacts share the same OFF horizontal bus for all the bottom OFF contact closures. In the modification the ON & OFF contacts are paired into a group of D1's and D2's which are described as brothes ie D2 OFF is the Brother of D2 ON, D1 OFF is the Brother of D1 ON. I think the description tries to say to get both ON and OFF from a magnetic reed switch "tie down the D2 wires from the Brothers and use the the D1's of the Brothers to connect to your reed switch".Since the D1 UNIT Brothers are the same electrial bus this does not make sense.
Should I be interpreting this to mean connect the ON D2 to the OFF D2 and then to one side of the reed switch and to the other side of the reed switch connect the common D1's? The modification was very confusing in this area. Anyone have a better understanding of the description? As an alternative I could use a SPDT (NO & NC) magnetic reed switch with 3 wires connected to the mini controller. The Common connection of the reed switch would connect to the D1 bus and the NO & NC contacts would connect to the D2's in the order you need their functionality. This would give 4 channels of ON/OFF that follow the mechanical operation of the SPDT magnetic reed switch. Maybe this is what the author of the modification was trying to tell us to do! |
Rick LaBanca
Administrator Posts: 688
From: Hope, RI
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 02-14-2000 08:57 PM
You made me re-read that modification.... I didn't realize there was a trick to make it do something when opened! But it is confusing.I think I'll get one of those controllers and experiment! If the make/break thing works it may solve a problem in figuring out the garage stuff I want to do. Rick
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Carol
Moderator Posts: 895
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 02-14-2000 11:04 PM
That's my first application too. Let me know if you make sense out of the modification directions after you inspect the unit. The directions were pretty good up until then. I don't want to blow out a working mini controller if I don't have to. The SPDT magnetic reed switch looks like a good bet. N.O. -Common- N.C. contacts in one 3 wire sensor.
[This message has been edited by Carol (edited 02-14-2000).] |
Scott Funk
Moderator Posts: 124
From: Foley, AL USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 02-15-2000 02:13 PM
Carol & Rick:I contacted Ido about the error and here's his response: "You are right. It doesn't make sense and this info is wrong. The mod works only with 'pulse' signals such as the ON-OFF from a PIR motion sensor. A reed switch (continuous ON, or continuous OFF) will not work here." He said that he would review the mod and post the correct instructions to the web site. I'll re-post here as soon as he e-mails back the correction to me. Sc  tt |
Carol
Moderator Posts: 895
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 02-15-2000 06:09 PM
I simulated the SPDT reed switch scenario on a Radio Shack branded X10 mini controller by PRESSING & HOLDING down the "A1 ON" key, the LED indicator on the mini controller blinks several times and then stops. I have a lamp connected to a lamp module (A1) and it went ON. After several minutes I released the A1 ON button and PRESSED and HELD the A1 OFF button, the LED on the mini controller blinks several times then stops, and the lamp turned OFF.
I figure if a wire from "D1 ON" or D1 OFF, as an example, (remembering that "D1 ON" and "D1 OFF" are electrically the same, and are already connected together because they are the same physical UNIT bus)of Unit Code A1 are connected to the COMMON terminal of the reed switch (only one wire is needed here for reasons described above), and A1's, "D2 OFF" is connected to the N.O. terminal of the reed switch, and A1's "D2 ON" contact is conected to the N.C. terminal of the reed switch, 3 wires total, and noting that the SPDT reed switch is a break-before-make contact arrangement, and will mechanically mimic the button PRESS and HOLD experiment I addressed above. This will give 4 dry contact ON/OFF channels, and 1 All Lights On/All Units OFF channel. It seems that on the mini controller the command is sent for a specific time frame and then stops, regardless of how long the contact is held closed, good news for us. If anyone has an X10 branded mini controller please try the Press and HOLD experiment I described above and let me know if it worked as I described.PS: The N.O. & N.C. SPDT reed switch connections can be reversed from that described above depending on your. application. [This message has been edited by Carol (edited 02-15-2000).] |
Scott Funk
Moderator Posts: 124
From: Foley, AL USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 02-15-2000 06:23 PM
Carol:It (X-10 brand) should work the same as the Radio Shack model. Experiment: Try sending (and holding) A1 ON and wait a moment, then (while A1 ON is still held) try pressing (and holding) A2 or A3 ON and see if it will allow for the succesful transmission of the subsequent commands. How long is the "timeout" period? Also, check your HomeSeer log and report your findings. We'll get to the bottom of this yet! Thanks, Sc tt |
Carol
Moderator Posts: 895
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 02-15-2000 06:28 PM
Simultaneous contact closures...the obvious eluded me!  Thanks for pointing that out. [This message has been edited by Carol (edited 02-15-2000).] |
Carol
Moderator Posts: 895
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 02-15-2000 07:15 PM
I experimented again. This time I pressed A1 and A2 simultaneously, or as close to simultaneously as I could, both lamps came ON within a few milliseconds of one another. I then turned A2 OFF while still holding A1 ON, the A2 lamp went off. I then simultaneously pressed A2 and A3 ON while still holding A1 ON. A2 and A3 lamps turned on. I then released A1 On and pressed A1 OFF while still holding A2 & A3 ON and lamp A1 turned OFF. I tried about every combination of simultaneous switch Closures and Holds I could manage, I went crazy trying to lock it up but the only thing to note was, the more simultaneous closures, the longer the queue to execute the commands was, but at max it seemed no longer than 2-3 seconds to execute 4 simultaneous closures and commands. But that's the way X10 functions. I don't have HomeSeer operational as yet so I can't comment on that aspect of you question, but the SPDT magnetic reed switches should work flawlessly with this modification. What were your findings, were they similar? All Electronics Corp. http://www.allelectronics.com
has in their winter catalog #100, the SPDT magnetic proximity reed, alarm system switch CAT# MS-7 for $3.50 ea - 10 for $32.50
or if you want to fabricate your own mounting hardware/enclosure they sell the glass encapsulated bare switch CAT# RSW-17 for $1.50ea. - 10 for $12.50 or CAT# RSW-18 for $1.00ea. - 10 for $8.50 If anyone has a cheaper source for this type of switch please post it here. Thanks [This message has been edited by Carol (edited 02-15-2000).] |
Rick LaBanca
Administrator Posts: 688
From: Hope, RI
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 02-15-2000 08:28 PM
From what it sounds like, it's possible to have a single spst switch send ON when closed and OFF when open, with whatever combo that mini controller needs.I've got to order one now, it's bugging me! For the switches, that's steep. I would just buy one glass reed NO and one NC and put them next to each other, should work fine with a strong magnet. Rick |
Carol
Moderator Posts: 895
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 02-16-2000 12:00 AM
That's exactly how it will work. The $3.50 price is steep, you could buy the cheaper bare glass encapsulated switches and pot it with silicone inside a small plastic tube to protect them from breakage, then glue the tube lenghtwise to a small rectangular piece of plastic with pre-drilled mounting holes. Make sure to align the switch with the magnet before you glue it in place to ensure it switches properly.I hope to modify my mini controller this weekend, I'll keep you posted.
[This message has been edited by Carol (edited 02-16-2000).] |
Carol
Moderator Posts: 895
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 02-17-2000 12:25 AM
More experimentation today. As I reported in my previous posts I tried a variety of tests on my mini controller which I will call controller "X", I was unable to lock it up no matter how many Unit switches were depressed and or held ON or OFF, good news.Then, trying to understand why I was not getting collisions from my 2-15 experiment, I set up 4 lamp modules A1 thru A4 for today's experiment. The lamps were all OFF, then I depressed the A1 thru A4 ON buttons simultaneously on contoller "X". The lamps all went on in sequence A1 first thru A4 which went ON last. It seems the mini controller internally scans the unit switches from the lowest number through the highest number and the commands are queued and transmitted in the same sequence as observed by the lamps turning on in that order. This ON process only takes several milliseconds which makes it seem like the lamps turn On at the same time. I borrowed another mini controller from a friend which I will call controller "Y" to try the next part of today's experiment. I set this controller for B1 thru B4 operation. I depressed and HELD B1 ON. On controller "X", I then depressed A1 ON and it worked fine. I repeated the same experiment as on 2-15 while HOLDING B1 ON. I then I changed the "Y" contoller for A1 thru A4 operation and depressed and HELD A1 ON then on controller "X" I depressed A3 ON and lamp A3 turned ON. Next I turned all lamps off and depressed A1 ON, on contoller "X", and A2 ON, on controller "Y", simultaneously. There was a collison and no commands were executed.
I change the code on controller "Y" back to B1 thru B4 operation and repeated the above, A1 On, B2 On, and again there was a collision, no execution of either command. The conclusion was that the individual ("X" alone, or "Y" alone) controllers can in fact executed simultaneous commands made on the individual units, due to their apparent internal scanning of the Unit switches. This is better than you would get with 4 individual Powerflash units, which would be unable to execute similar simultaneous commands, due to collisions, because they are idividual units that only handle one Unit Code each. As Brian Karas stated in his Jan. 9th post in the "Talk to X10.com!" forum in the "X10 sensors" folder: "One of these limitations is that there is no collision detection scheme in X-10. This means that if 2 devices try to transmit at the same time both signals will get corrupted (or sometimes, mixed into a "new" signal), and neither transmitter will know that it's signal didn't get through." So the more traffic we put out on the system, the more chances of collisions.
But understand the modification is not the cause of these collisions, but an inherent limitation of the X10 protocol. In fact the mini controller in my opinion, helps this situation just a little, because collisions from simultaneous switch closures on the mini controller units are internally handled by the controller itself. Please do your own experiments something similar to what I have done before you rip apart and modify your mini controller. I would like to hear if you get the same results, and come to the same conclusions that I did.
Thanks - Carol
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Carol
Moderator Posts: 895
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 02-22-2000 07:02 PM
Just found this! I overlooked it before.
Go to: http://www.geocities.com/ido_bartana/mc460-12.pdf This will open a PDF schematic of the Switch Side of the mini controller. This might help explain what I was talking about.
AND
here's the component side: http://www.geocities.com/ido_bartana/mc460-22.pdf
[This message has been edited by Carol (edited 02-22-2000).] |
